III: Forever Changed
Everytown surivor network show us the way of grace
Dexter: Yeah, I think it's amazing how, like, a way for us to sometimes receive what we didn't get is to give it, if that makes sense. If you didn't have something, say growing up, then a way for you to own that, is to actually pay it forward. It's a way for you to actually also receive. I want to turn to something else now. You’ve both talked about your experiences with gun violence, I'm just wondering if you could speak a little bit about that. And Vince, I know about the incident that got you shot and in the chair, and you could talk about that, but I'm also just wondering on a more everyday level. What was your experience with guns generally? I think we're living in a time now where there's at least, if not the political will, a consciousness around gun violence, but what was the reality for you on an everyday level? And I’m sure it's different in a big city like Chicago to the suburbs or a smaller city like Newburgh, but I'm curious, what was your experience around guns and gun violence?
Vince: Every day, you either hear it or you can see somebody getting shot. And then I witnessed my best friend being killed at 16, 17 years old. So that right there just put me in a different zone. Thinking basically that was it. I wrote a poem the other day. I was like, "Seeing so many go before they can even know, then seeing so many go as if getting old is wrong."
Dexter: So it was always around. You either head it or saw it.
Vince: Yeah. It was definitely around.
Dexter: What about you Jeremiah?
Jeremiah: I'm on the same boat, hearing it everyday or every other day. I remember my first time being outside of the city, I was in the south suburbs and hearing silence was the weirdest thing. That silence can throw you so far off guard, man, but yeah it never was a thing, man. I was really blessed that not too many close people around me were ever really hit in that way. The older I got, I started losing homies. But me and my older brothers just saw the game and knew how things were going. We always just moved a certain way so that we would avoid situations like that. I, however, definitely have been caught up in a few situations. I mean, the first time I even shot a gun, I was down south with my uncle. He hunted for his food. He had his own land, so it was a completely different experience for me. And then, years later, I knew guys that did what they had to do. It's survival of the fittest in a lot of cases and it's hard to turn that survival instinct off. So I never put myself in a judgment seat.
But it's like the biggest thing that I've noticed is so much miseducation about guns in the first place. I feel like everyone from the parents of the child needs to be educated properly. And I feel like at some point there should be some type of training so that, God forbid, if it ever comes to it, you would be able to protect yourself, but it should never be the first option. And I feel like that's where people like me and Vince and programs like ours really step forward into the forefront because we're giving more access to these other avenues. Because it's like, what else are you going to do if you live in the low end of your city and your mom on section 8, you don't got a dad in your home, you know what I'm saying?
And the only thing that you know is the people that are around you and what they have to do. You're going to do what you have to do, which nine times out of ten is just going to be a reflection of your environment, your situation or the mentality of your surroundings. And to give somebody a completely different example, it's ridiculous how much good it does. I've seen complete changes in mentality from both children, teenagers and young adults, you know what I mean? Some of them still, unfortunately, live in these areas, but because they were able to find a new pathway and find an escape, what it did for them mentally was huge. Education is the key through it all, you know what I mean?
Dexter: That's awesome. This leads me to my next question. I think art and music are so powerful. I feel like it hits straight to the heart; it can transcend whatever you're going through at the moment. So I'm curious what the role of music was in your life. Was there a moment when you knew that's what you wanted to do? Was there a first piece of music that you were really proud of that was like, shit, I'm an artist!
Vince: Yeah, growing up music was big. I had an older sister that was into music, played all types of instruments, and on the flip side, I was always in church. My grandmother was a pastor, so I was always in church, in tune to that. And yeah, music always would get me through things, especially being 16, going to prison, music actually helped me. Listening to music actually helped me keep a straight mind. And especially since I was shot. I would hear my music all the way in the front, like the only thing that would keep my anxiety, and keep me sane. And then when I started making music, it was something I always wanted to do, but never took the time to do it. Iit's so much better to be able to really get your feelings out. Never knowing who’s going through the same thing and then finding out that my music helped them.
Dexter: And what was the first piece of music you made Vince that you were like, "Hey, I'm proud of this?"
Vince: I would say the track Streets Don't Love Nobody.
Dexter: Yeah. I love that one. How come? What is it about that song?
Vince: Just the message... the message that's in it. And knowing that it can really change somebody's life.
Dexter: What about you, Jeremiah? Was music always present in your life?And was there a moment where you were like, "This is what I want to do?" Do you recall a moment where that was your path? And was there a first piece of music where you were like, "Shit, this is dope. I stand behind this?"
Jeremiah: Oh man. So for me personally, music, I've always been surrounded by it. My father is a pianist, a drummer, an organist. And he also introduced me to the music scene through church. I've always been surrounded by it. It's just been an incredible thing to me. It wasn't the first thing that I wanted to do. But my second oldest brother introduced me to hiphop and he started writing raps at... I think he was maybe eight. And I was like, yo, if he's doing that, I want to be like him. So I'm listening to music and eventually started playing drums and banging on my desk, keyboard or whatever. But yeah, man, moving forward and just really enjoying what I'm listening to. . .
Dexter: Oh, I think you froze.
Jeremiah: . . . he was like, "Yo, you can make your own piece to rap over." And I was like, okay. So I started doing that then next thing I know, I'm recording at home. I'm trying to be a rapper. And I remember the first little song that I did, I wrote it. Off course I wrote my lyrics, but I also made the beat. I recorded it and It just felt so good to me. I just kept going and kept going, trying to get better and better at it, to no avail at first, but eventually I met people that gave me keys and a little knowledge and it just transpired from there. And yeah, I've just been on that path ever since and now . . .
Dexter: Oh man, got a bad connection. Can you hear Jeremiah? Oh, you're on mute. So we had a bad connection. We missed a little bit at the end there, but I was wondering... I love the song you submitted, Ain't No Going Outside Today. I relate so much growing up in the Bronx. There were days where I would ask "Mom, can I go outside? I wanna play football." And she would say "No, not today." You're like, "Why not?" . But I wondered, what inspired, if you could talk a little bit about that song and just like what inspired it and the message behind it.
Jeremiah: I was working on a project at the time and it was pretty much called... The name of the project is called, Inside, looking outside. I wanted to just share a collection of personal narratives in my life and viewpoints on it or whatever. And that song in particular, it never really had a title, but I just ended up calling it the hook. Ain't no going outside today, because I can remember so many times, me wanting to hang outside and want to hang with the friends or on the weekend, especially, you know what I mean? And just not being able to, and my mom would never really explain to me why or to my brothers, why. And the older you got there, you learn, you know what I mean? But man, because you never know when it's going to be the last day.
Jeremiah: Nobody knows. And I don't want to get preaching but it says, "No man knows the day nor the hour," you know what I'm saying? And I don't think that's just for the rap. I think that's for when life happens, you know what I mean? But yeah, it was definitely frustrating as a kid because it's like, you want to do things and you don't want to stay cooped up in the apartment. We were staying in an apartment or whatever at the time. And I grew up on the east side of Chicago off of 80, 30 gates. The nickname of the area is called Terrytown, you know what I mean? So I know everybody's hood or bro got a nickname to it or whatever. So just that whole little experience was something else, but being older now I understand why my mother was so protective of us and everything and I can appreciate it to a greater degree now.
Dexter: That's what's up? Well, just a few more questions I wanted to ask. I mean, one thing I wanted to ask both of you is, we've endured this very trying year with the pandemic and I'm just wondering like what the role of your artistic practice and community did for you during this time. We could start with you Vince, what was it like being this year isolation and what did your music and your poetry and also role in the community? All of that, what did that give to you during this time?
Jeremiah: Yeah, I can say, during the lockdown, especially, brought some creativity out and was able to write and to record in the times that I was able to. And yeah, I think the whole pandemic artistically wise, I got better because it gave me time.
Dexter: What about you, Jeremiah? What did your artistic practice afford you during this pandemic that maybe you wouldn't have otherwise?
Jeremiah: It forced me to sit down and take time for myself because I'm always running the street doing something. I always got to be here, got to do this, got to do that, whatever. So it just helped me to sit back down and get in my producer bag again and just really get back involved with... [inaudible 00:30:54] creating because beforehand, I never really sat down to create just to create, because I didn't have the time. The only time I was creating, I was always going to the studio, but now it's time of isolation. I really got this to sit down with the [inaudible 00:31:14] and just re-fell in love with it. So yeah man, it was irritating but it was still a good thing at the end of the day.
Dexter: That's amazing. And now that we've gone through... I mean, we're going through this experience, but now there've been almost two years going through this. Has anything changed in your perspective? What do you take away from this time? Has there been any lessons that have emerged or anything that's a takeaway for you going forward?
Jeremiah: Man, a takeaway from the whole experience of the pandemic for me is appreciate the people you have around you, don't take them for granted because, unfortunately, I've also suffered losses due to the COVID 19 and few other things, man. So it just really helped me to take an account of people around me, my loved ones, regardless of family or not. Yeah, if you doing what you love to do, give it a 100%. We give a 100% to everything else that we do. When I was working a regular nine to five, I was giving a 100% because I wanted to keep that job. So if I'm doing this, I got to give it more energy, you know what I'm saying? Because whatever you put your energy into, it grows and it blossoms out and plant these in so many different areas. So you want to make sure that you're curating positive energy out there. You know what I'm saying? Whatever you put out there, whatever vibrations you put out there are beneficial, not just to yourself, but to those around you.
Dexter: Love that. And you Vince, any parting words? What's a takeaway for you for this time? What lessons, how have you changed and how do you see the world differently after this time?
Vince: Yeah, I would say lessons, it taught me that anything can happen at any time, and I never thought I'd be seeing the world going through what it's going through. And like Jeremiah said, appreciate the ones that surround you, man, because especially me, living in a nursing home, seeing so many people just die, man.
Dexter: Amazing. Well, I don't want to take too much more of your time. I want to just thank you so, so much for making the time. Thank you for the work that you're doing. I love the work that you guys are doing, I love the music and it's really inspiring and just thankful for taking the time to chat today and yeah [crosstalk 00:34:26].
Vince: All right.
Dexter: All right guys, you have a good rest of your day and I'll reach out, follow up, just let you know how it goes. Jeremiah, we're going to have a launch to the collection in about three weeks. So I'm going to let know about it. It's going to be a fun Zoom celebration just to showcase art and joy and celebration of the amazing work that was put together. So I'll let you know about it.
Jeremiah: All right, cool man. Grace and peace to both of y'all.
Dexter: Well you too, man. Peace.